SPEAKER_0 [00:00:00]
Dramas, please.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:13]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:20]
This is life
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:21]
with a twist of lemon.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:24]
John, I cannot believe that Liz no longer listens to the podcast. I know. It was a shock to me too. I mean, for a while, she listened just to see if we would mention her. And we I mean, we went over a month where at the beginning of every episode, we actually mentioned Liz by name.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:41]
Correct.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:42]
I mean, it was prerecorded and always the same thing, but that is a valid statement. Yeah. I I there's nobody else with as many honorable mentions, at least I don't think so, as Liz. Maybe Borghart, a close second, but but Liz is definitely near there at the top. Indeed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:58]
Done. Here's what I wanna know.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:01]
When exactly was it that she stopped listening? Was it was it Endgame?
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:05]
Was it the episodes that led up to Endgame, or was it further back than that?
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:09]
My guess would be it happened during the great Marvel stretch,
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:14]
where we talked about Marvel a lot. Okay. So, like, that period from basically Captain Marvel
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:20]
to when Patrick was here? Yeah. Probably.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:23]
Ugh. We lost your mother at the same time.
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:26]
Yep. I think my mother still will tune in from time to time.
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:30]
She just wasn't all about that Marvel life.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:33]
I this just concerns me, John, because your family is is dropping like flies here and they were And they are were
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:39]
a core group of listeners. Yeah. My dad
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:42]
does listen
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:43]
to every episode including the Marvel ones. Well, Papa Colmire, if you're out there listening right now,
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:50]
know know that we love you. You're fan number one. Alright. So here's here's my promise. And, again, we we just we're gonna keep mentioning Liz. This is basically the Liz episode. That's how I view this episode. K? Alright. The Liz episode, we'll
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:04]
see if she notices and listens.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:07]
Yeah. So we're not gonna talk about
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:10]
Star Wars
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:11]
or Marvel.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:13]
K? Like, this is k. This is the Star Wars Marvel free episode. That's in fact, that's the last time that I'll say the s word or the m word
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:22]
on this episode, period.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:25]
Alright.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:26]
K.
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:27]
You saw Liz recently, didn't you? I did. They all stayed here for
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:33]
Labor Day weekend,
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:34]
celebrated
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:35]
my dad's birthday and my nephew's birthday.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:39]
So yeah. When you say they stayed here,
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:43]
do you mean in Cedar Rapids or, like, here in your house?
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:48]
So Liz and her four children stayed here in my house.
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:53]
There was one night where my younger sister,
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:56]
Becca, stayed here,
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:58]
But otherwise, Becca and my parents stayed at a hotel here in Cedar Rapids.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:03]
Okay. Was the night that Becca stayed there her first or her last?
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:07]
Her first.
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:08]
Okay. So it was before Liz and her children,
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:12]
came. Okay. I see. I was gonna say that would be a lot of people all under one roof. I mean, Liz and the four kids
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:19]
is a lot of people all under one roof too
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:22]
with you and Anna, especially since you're not used to that many people in your house all at once. Yeah. So they were all here for the majority of the weekend in
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:32]
some way, shape, or form. They just went back to the hotel to sleep. Now, how how do you as an introvert
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:38]
handle all of those people in your personal space for a prolonged period?
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:45]
I think I handled it pretty well. It's family, so it's a little easier.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:50]
There was one point where I spent some time out on the deck with my pipe in a Manhattan before I grill the burgers for dinner. So Okay. I respect that. I respect that. I definitely know what it's like to, like you you know, you got too many people in your house. You just need to step away for a moment and recharge.
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:08]
They almost made me give up the Amazon Echo.
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:12]
What? Why? What were you doing with the Echo? The kids had lots of fun with the Echo,
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:17]
telling jokes about specific things or telling them stories about specific things. So if you have the Echo,
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:25]
ask it to
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:27]
tell you a story about her,
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:30]
and it's actually a pretty good story. Wait. A a story about her, like h e r, or a story about her h u r? Yes. Like, say, Alexa, tell me a story about you.
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:40]
Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay.
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:42]
Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:43]
If I had, you know, one of those big brother devices plugged in in my house, I would do that, but I don't. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:49]
I'll just have to live vicariously through you. Don't you have a nest?
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:53]
No. I don't have a nest. I don't do Google, man. Come on.
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:57]
Whatever
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:58]
that camera you put in front of your house or That is a that is a ring doorbell,
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:04]
and And you don't connect it to the Internet. I think we've talked about this before. No. It's it's definitely connected to the Internet, but it points out of my house.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:12]
K. It it doesn't, like, look in on what's going on in my house or listen in on what's going on in my house. It is physically outside of the home. And just to clarify too, Ring is owned by Amazon, not Google.
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:24]
Also is
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:25]
the Echo.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:26]
Yes. But but the the Echo listens to it sits inside your home. See, the the perimeter protects me, at least in in my mind it does.
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:36]
Yep. Until so
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:39]
on that note, we're going off on a tangent, but would you ever allow the local police department
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:46]
access to your video feed? No.
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:49]
Okay. Neither would I. But apparently, that's the thing that they're requesting in some neighborhoods now. Well, there's there's actually a whole neighborhood feature on the ring where people can share,
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:00]
like, stuff that they've spotted and things like it's it's actually kinda creepy to me. The other thing that's I think a little interesting
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:07]
is I I should back up. We got a ring
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:11]
because everybody on the block has a ring, and I thought it would be handy up with the Joneses. Yeah. Well yeah. But how many of your neighbors have their mortgage paid off?
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:20]
So
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:22]
the the thing that was interesting was I I found this out because
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:26]
people kept posting pictures
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:28]
that they had taken from their rings, like, videos
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:32]
of, like, people blowing stop signs and stuff like that. Or like your kids riding around on bikes? Well, no, not that. But it was mostly like people blowing stop signs. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:41]
the the thing is it I I got to thinking, like, I mean, that might be handy when we leave, like, when we're gone. I could see that being beneficial.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:49]
Sure. So that's what eventually led us to to do that. I don't really care about Amazon packages. Like, I'm not I'm not worried about
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:56]
people stealing those. I know that's a big thing that people do.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:59]
I'm I'm not worried about, like, random motion in the middle of the day. I'm literally just worried about someone ringing the doorbell while I'm gone
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:06]
and being able to answer it. So you know? So, like, when I randomly show up and turns out you're in Atlanta or something like that?
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:13]
I I don't see that happening, but in your hypothetical world, sure. Let's say that's one of the reasons I'm authoring. I've shown up at your house randomly once.
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:21]
That was for a surprise birthday party, John. That's true. And your wife knew about it. So Yeah. That's that's not I I wouldn't say it was random by any stretch.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:30]
Fair enough.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:31]
Alright.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:32]
So that was not on the agenda,
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:34]
but it was not the s word or the m word. Right. We're not gonna talk about those things today.
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:40]
But my my understanding is that
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:42]
Liz did get to talking to you about
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:45]
another topic.
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:47]
I I guess I surprised
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:49]
you too. I I don't need don't you have to set this up for me, this whole Yes. Cal Newport thing.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:55]
She basically said
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:57]
that she didn't listen anymore. So like the good,
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:00]
customer pleasing
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:02]
cohost that I am, I asked, what do you want us to talk about? And,
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:06]
apparently
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:07]
I mean, you're kind of antisocial media in general, but apparently,
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:11]
you are or have been active on Goodreads.
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:14]
And she noticed that you gave,
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:17]
digital minimalism by Cal Newport two stars.
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:22]
And in her homeschooling world,
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:25]
everybody raves about that book. Okay. Alright. Let's
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:29]
just let's just pause for a moment. I am not anti social media.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:32]
I'm not the biggest fan of Facebook.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:35]
I am not I'm not a big fan of how a lot of people use social media, I do spend a lot of time reading on Twitter. I don't post a lot anymore. I used to. I don't post a lot on Facebook, but I I do check it from time to time. My my opposition
SPEAKER_1 [00:08:48]
saw you there was a lemon sighting on Instagram the other day.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:53]
Wait. What? Oh, I liked some things. I had to log in. Some
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:57]
so this is again, if I were opposed to social media, I wouldn't even have the account. But somebody sent me a link to Instagram. I had to log in, and then since I had it open in my browser, I scrolled through, and I think I like some pictures.
SPEAKER_1 [00:09:10]
Did not realize pictures. You did not like any of my pictures.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:14]
I I didn't see any by you at the time that I was on.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:18]
So correct me if I'm wrong. Instagram doesn't sort things chronologically anymore, does it? No. Not anymore. Thanks to Facebook buying them. See, I that that I I don't know, man. That would that would kinda drive me nuts. I I don't moving that way too. Thankfully, you have a good Twitter app.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:35]
Yeah. I don't I don't use the native client. Do they do that in the,
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:39]
official
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:40]
client Yeah. For Twitter? Oh, okay. Alright. Interesting. See, the more you know. So I'm I don't keep up on all these details, but I I didn't wanna derail on this. I just wanna say I am not universally against social media.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:52]
This will become relevant So in a
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:54]
with Goodreads,
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:55]
I am I do have my Amazon account linked. As you know, I favor the Kindle,
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:00]
and I favor reading digitally for a variety of reasons. Another Amazon product.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:04]
Yeah. It's a great Amazon product. It's a fan listen. I you will never see me discourage someone from buying a Kindle. In fact, I just encouraged,
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:13]
our good friend, the right reverend Aaron Fanker, to buy the more expensive
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:18]
model
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:19]
Not
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:20]
the not the Orion or Osiris or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:25]
It begins with an o, but it's not either of those. I don't I can't remember what it's called now. Yeah. It'll come to me later.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:30]
But, the the new fancy paperweight. I it's I'm serious. I love those devices. They're fantastic. So on those, it's really easy when you're done reading a book to just post to
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:41]
Goodreads.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:42]
And if you do it on the iOS app, same thing. And so I I kinda like that it tracks what I've I've read, and the fact that it shares it with some people, not the end of the world. I I don't really think of Goodreads
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:53]
in the same social media bucket as Facebook. You can fight me on that, but I I don't I don't see it as tune to. So, yes, after I was done with digital minimalism,
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:02]
I I posted to Goodreads that I had completed reading it. And when it does that, it prompts me how many stars.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:09]
You can also type up a review.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:11]
I am almost never going to do that on a Kindle itself. I also just I just don't care that much. So I do the stars, then I move on with life.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:20]
Fair enough.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:21]
So you gave it two two stars according to Liz.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:26]
Yeah. That sounds about right. That was surprising because
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:29]
I don't think she's read digital minimalism,
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:31]
but she read
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:34]
something else by Cal Newport.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:36]
And she wasn't a huge fan, but everybody else in their circles raves about him.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:41]
Well, he's definitely trendy right now. I I think so he's a he's a college professor,
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:47]
and I think he
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:49]
maybe maybe did she read how to become a straight a student? I think that's the other really popular one. I don't know. Okay. So We can look on Goodreads. Yeah. There we go. I'll let I'll let you do that. But but so here's the thing.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:01]
I the reason I found out about digital minimalism
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:05]
was because Tim Hartford of the Financial Times, who I'm a big fan of,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:10]
was plugging it. I can't remember where now. It might have been on his podcast. It might have been on,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:17]
the indicator because he was a guest on the indicator a couple times.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:21]
But, Tim Hartford is the guy who wrote the undercover economist and The Undercover Economist Strikes Back. And you've heard me say that The Undercover Economist Strikes Back is easily
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:32]
one of the best books I've read in the last year,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:36]
especially if you have even the, like, tiniest bit of interest in economics.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:41]
Tim Hartford just does a fantastic job of explaining,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:45]
you know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:47]
macroeconomics in a way that's, like, palatable and easy to understand. There's just a lot of stuff that makes sense. So he referenced this book, Digital Minimalism.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:56]
He was a fan. Tim Hartford has also kinda gone through a whole digital minimalism thing himself,
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:01]
and that's why I was curious. Right? So so Tim Hartford
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:04]
uses, I think, Twitter and Facebook still to plug his stuff, but he has really, like, reduced the amount of time that he spends on these things.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:14]
Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:15]
So so here's here's my first beef with Cal Newport. First of all, if you I think if you'd look the book up, you'll find out that, like, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal,
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:25]
probably the USA Today all called us, you know, like, one of their bestsellers.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:30]
Amazon had it on, like, one of the best books of 2019, which is comical because twenty nineteen's not done yet, folks. Still plenty of time to knock it off the list, but whatever.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:39]
Suffice to say, when I read it, my my first problem was I just don't think Cal Newport's that good of a writer.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:46]
I I don't find him particularly engaging,
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:48]
and he repeats himself
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:50]
to the point that, like, it it's almost painful. Right? Mhmm. So you'll read chapter one, and then chapter two will will basically restate
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:58]
half of chapter one in a slightly different way. And so it to me, that's not engaging.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:04]
I will say I didn't find there to be anything I considered earth shattering.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:09]
Like, this book basically says, when it comes to using
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:13]
electronics,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:14]
you gotta be an adult about it. Right? Like, you have to be able to,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:21]
like, control yourself.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:23]
And to me, that's not, like, an earth shattering book that everybody should read. Right? That's, like, stating the obvious.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:30]
Now part of his his book is this method called the digital declutter.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:36]
Did you look this up or anything? Like, have you have you looked up anything about this book? Okay. Alright. I have not. I've read this a while ago.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:42]
I read this book a while ago, so
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:45]
bear with me here. But but the digital declutter is, like, thirty days. You cut out a whole bunch of your digital life, and you,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:52]
you know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:53]
it's like a fast. Right? It's it's really no different than,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:56]
like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:57]
what's the You gave up sugar for thirty days? Yeah. Or the whole thirty thing. Like, it's it's the same kind of mindset. Right? So you purge all of this, and then you come back to it, and you bring things back in
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:08]
restraint. Right? So the digital declutter, that whole cold turkey period, is supposed to kinda, like, reset you so that you're empowered to have restraint. Now he doesn't actually spend a lot of time, like, talking about how to do it. He just kinda tosses it out there as an idea.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:23]
I I think that's also, like, in in the world of self help books, which is quite frankly, like, what this is. Right? Right. This is a self help book.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:31]
I I would expect a little more,
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:33]
concrete assistance.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:35]
How's that?
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:36]
Fair enough. I will say he does touch on some of the things
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:41]
that I've heard you practice before. So, like, the monochrome thing with your phone that you do, where you basically get rid of the color,
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:50]
moving everything off the home screen. Does some of the things that I do, which is, like, just I don't have the Facebook app on my phone. Right? So it's not a temptation
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:59]
to pull it up and go do it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:02]
I should say though, lest you think I am being altruistic here, I removed it because it was killing my battery.
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:11]
Which you yeah. You keep those things pretty tied up. Yeah. And you see how much,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:16]
battery usage it's used and
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:19]
I'm I'm a hawk about that stuff. You are. But so here here's the thing. Right? Like, I do I think it is good to exercise restraint
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:28]
to maybe have boundaries around your phone usage, things of that sort? Yes.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:33]
You know? Do I think you need to buy Cal Newport's book
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:37]
order to learn how to do that? No. I think a dose of common sense will work just as fine and cost you a lot less.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:45]
Or listen to this podcast today, and I will I will tell you exactly what you need to know.
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:51]
Or if you are really, really interested and you have nothing better to do with your time, check out your local library because I'm sure they have 10 copies. Well, and that's that's where that's where I got my copy. And I read my copy on the Kindle, a digital device.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:06]
So I don't know what Cal Newport would have thought about that. He probably would have been okay with it. But Didn't you read Fahrenheit four fifty one on a Kindle too? Oh, I I totally did.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:15]
It was yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:21]
So I let let me ask you this, John. Like, are you surprised that a book like this is
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:26]
trendy and popular and getting four or five star reviews on Goodreads?
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:32]
Not
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:33]
really. What you saying that he's not a very good writer kinda surprises me that it, gets such a good reaction,
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:39]
but it being popular doesn't because people
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:43]
don't have any self control about things,
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:46]
these days.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:48]
I I think so his his writing style
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:51]
is clear.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:52]
Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:54]
It's it's the redundancy in, like, some of the,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:58]
inability to really structure around
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:00]
it's not actionable. I think that's the thing. It's self help book that I didn't feel like was super actionable
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:06]
apart from the digital declutter, which was one thing, and it it wasn't really concrete enough. But I I think if What was that book that I read a couple years ago? I was kinda in the same vein.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:17]
Oh, was it it wasn't the Zappos book. Is that the one you're thinking about? No. I loved the Zappos book.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:23]
It was around that time though. Right? No. It was like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:27]
Reclaiming Conversation.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:29]
I did not read that one. The power of talk in a digital age. So I gave that two stars. That's another one that gets some some fairly good good reviews.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:39]
And it was just
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:41]
like it was basically like she was arguing about something that
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:46]
doesn't exist.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:47]
This is another New York Times bestseller. This is by Sherry Turkle. I actually think I read
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:53]
This is fairly old. When did it come out? I don't know if This it is 2016.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:57]
I
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:58]
I read the intro to this
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:01]
on the sample on Kindle because you recommended it, and I couldn't get into it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:06]
I recommended it. I gave it two stars. I mean, I don't think you I don't think you recommended it, like, that kind of recommendation. I think you're like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:13]
am I insane? You should read this, that that kind of recommendation.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:17]
Got it. But,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:19]
I, you know, I don't know, man. Like, I've got I've got pretty high expectations
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:23]
if you're gonna do a self help book. Right? Like, to me, the gold standard is
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:27]
Dale Carnegie and how to win friends and influence people. Right? Like, that's a that's a great book with fantastic anecdotes. It's well structured,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:35]
and it has, I think, really good actionable suggestions.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:39]
And there's not there's not a lot of redundancy. Now granted, by the time you get to, like, two thirds of the way through, you start to notice trends.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:48]
But a trend is different than redundancy,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:51]
and I I I really think that's where Cal Newport just kinda
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:54]
just Yeah. So that's another thing where,
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:57]
like, Dale Carnegie,
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:59]
everything he says is kinda common sense,
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:02]
but he says it in a way that's actionable
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:06]
and that makes sense and kinda resonates with people. Yeah. He takes common sense. Right? And he frames it in a set of,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:13]
I don't know, like rubrics. Right? Ways ways to take,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:18]
existing
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:20]
situations
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:20]
in your life
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:22]
and,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:24]
apply that common sense in in like, to identify it and then act upon it. I I don't know. So let let me just take a step back.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:32]
Digital minimalism as a concept, not as a title. Great. You you should totally do that. The book, meh.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:39]
I I think, you'd be fine not reading it.
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:42]
We can dive deeper into these topics later on. If you're interested, just leave a comment on our face page.
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:48]
Yeah, Liz.
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:50]
I don't know if I think she is back on Facebook now. She was off Facebook for a while. Just think it was because of this book. Yeah. We'd love to know if there's a digital declutter.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:00]
So there you go, Liz. We talked about a topic that you wanted to talk about.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:04]
Other listeners who didn't care about that and don't care about Marvel, tell us what you You said it. You said the word. You're not supposed to say The m word. I'll it out. Yeah. You totally should. We'll bring back the the finger bleep. Oh, that'd be awesome. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:22]
in the world of in the digital world of computers, this is a rough week for me.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:27]
Yeah. I
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:29]
I I've I've been on Catalina,
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:32]
macOS Catalina for a bit, as you know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:35]
and
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:36]
sixty six days in total to to in case you were wondering.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:40]
And then making marks on your office wall
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:43]
Yeah. Tracking the days.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:45]
I I wish it were that simple. No.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:48]
I actually know because that's the point at which Backblaze
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:51]
could no longer back up my computer. That's right. That was a whole another story. Yep. Yeah. We talked about that. So I finally gave up on Catalina. I'm officially calling it Crapalina.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:02]
I I don't know, man. I this this one kinda bothered me because
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:07]
I I'm usually really, like, bullish and energetic about new macOS versions. This one, I'm not.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:13]
And and I got I got bit hard. I got bit real hard.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:17]
I had problems with iCloud,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:19]
like iCloud Drive, and that you wanna talk about shaking your confidence
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:24]
in something.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:25]
Have it have it shake your confidence on where you store your files, like your important stuff.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:31]
So I've got, like, you know, the church finances in there. And, of course, backblaze isn't working, so it's not going off any place else. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:39]
because I have historically not been a big fan of time machine for other reasons, I didn't have that going for me either. So I was I was swinging it crazy,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:47]
like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:48]
just free and
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:50]
without concern.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:54]
So you know what I did after I got Mojave installed, John?
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:59]
You backed everything up. To Backplace, and then I went and bought an external hard drive for Time Machine.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:05]
Do you have some redundancy built into your hard drive?
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:08]
Yes. It's, it's in a RAID one configuration.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:12]
There there are two six terabyte,
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:14]
Western Digital Red NAS
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:16]
drives in there. Nice.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:18]
So I thought about going full on NAS, and that still may happen someday, but, at least at this juncture,
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:24]
there's not a huge reason for me to
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:29]
Currently.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:30]
Currently. Yeah. I mean, we'll see. So I Are you gonna start committing everything to GitHub?
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:38]
I I will tell you that most of the stuff that I tinker around with these days is in GitHub. If not public, then as a private repo.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:46]
But what about, like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:47]
photos?
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:49]
No. So photos are just an iCloud.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:53]
But, again, like, I
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:55]
I think this is the thing. Right? When your storage is so intrinsically connected to the operating system,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:01]
you should not be experimenting with a beta operating system.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:05]
Last
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:06]
When you were first first installed the early beta, you you were kind of impressed. Thought it was running pretty well. I I was. Well, that's the thing. I actually think it got worse by the time I got to, you know, beta
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:19]
seven or beta eight or whatever it was. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:22]
that's that's what's got me a little rattled. Now there's a general rule out in the macrosphere
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:28]
that you should wait till the dot one release. So when
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:32]
Catalina comes out,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:34]
instead of upgrading to 10 dot 15 dot zero,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:37]
wait till 10 dot 15 dot one. And I will tell you right now,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:40]
that is absolutely what I'm going to do. That dot one usually comes out within thirty days of the release.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:47]
So,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:49]
like, I've I've tried Catalina,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:50]
not really a killer feature there waiting for me. I'm I'm good. I'm a wait.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:56]
So did they ever push out, like, the reminders improvements and stuff like that?
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:01]
Because you were excited about those. They did, but here's the thing. In order to use the reminders,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:06]
improvements, I had to click a button that said upgrade.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:10]
And in order to upgrade,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:12]
I also had to upgrade my phone and then my iPad, and I was not gonna do that. Didn't do that. Because I've gotten bit by the iOS betas in the past, and I've I've, like, ruled those out. I mean, if you've got a secondary device or something that you wanna mess around, have fun. Have at it. But I got my primaries, and I I'm just I'm not willing to to tinker with those anymore.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:32]
Fair enough.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:34]
So in approximately two hours,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:37]
my first time machine my first encrypted time machine backup will complete. I did complete a time machine backup before this only to get the alert that it was not encrypted,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:48]
and I should do it again, which was really,
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:51]
really annoying. That was, what,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:53]
forty eight hours ago? About that. Yeah. It's
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:57]
I'll tell you what, it's not a it's not a fast process.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:00]
I'm pretty sure that the,
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:02]
the USB
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:03]
cable
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:04]
is my bottleneck, but there's nothing I can do about that. So
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:08]
Fair enough.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:10]
Speaking
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:10]
of kinda your computer setup,
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:13]
let's talk about your workstation itself, Stan.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:17]
This has been on our backlog of episode ideas.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:20]
I don't even remember why, but I thought that people would find it interesting. I think it came out of cable management,
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:26]
actually,
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:27]
because you and somebody from work were going back and forth on Yeah. Keeping your cables
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:33]
out of sight, out of mind. I was I was trolling Chris Brown, who I don't think is a listener, but we're But he's on Twitter, so we can tag him. Yes. We can. So alright. Let me ask this, John. You have unlike me, you have two desks. Right? You got the one at home and you got the one at the office. Tell me about your setup before I go into mine.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:52]
Yeah. So I'll start at work since that's where I spend the majority of my computing time unless I'm doing personal finance stuff or
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:59]
recording life with Twisted Lemon.
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:02]
So at work, I have an autonomous
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:05]
desk,
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:06]
which is a programmable standing desk,
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:09]
and on that is mounted an arm that both has kind of a pedestal for my laptop to sit on on the left and then a monitor arm on the right. So I have one external monitor and use my laptop monitor there.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:25]
Question. Do you actually use your laptop monitor when you have it plugged into an external?
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:30]
I do. Okay. Interesting. What do keep It's usually
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:33]
so it's usually, like so if I'm building out a website page, I have content on one side, and I do my actual design on the other side.
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:43]
If I'm just working, I usually have my web browser and stuff on the external monitor and then things like Slack or messages
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:51]
over on the left side
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:55]
on my laptop monitor. Okay. This is very different from me. I do not use my laptop screen at all once I plug it in.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:03]
See, I think that the difference there is yours sits low, doesn't it? It just sits on your desk surface.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:10]
It does at the moment. I used to have one of those fancy stands that you did. I I still never used it that way.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:16]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:17]
So I do all the time. I mean, I line up the bottom of my monitors,
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:21]
basically.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:22]
And then the MacBook monitor is smaller than the external, but they're kinda lined up at the bottom there.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:29]
K.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:31]
So then I just have a standard
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:34]
Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse there at work.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:39]
Yeah. So that's kinda That pains me to think about I know. To be honest with you.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:44]
Yeah. You you went all in on keyboards in the last couple of years.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:48]
Yeah. I mean, it's it's probably been at least five years now. I I don't
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:53]
I mean, I I just I like a good mechanical keyboard. There's no way around it. You know?
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:58]
So that's kind of the tech setup there.
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:03]
I have a
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:05]
surge protector that sits on my desk so that it's not annoying to move up and down,
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:10]
and plugged into that is
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:12]
my equipment.
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:14]
And then I also have my Beats,
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:17]
chargers plugged in there and a little desk lamp, which is usually on when I'm at work. A desk lamp? Like an LED desk lamp. Yeah. Why? Like, do you not have lights overhead?
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:28]
I do.
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:30]
This actually comes out of when we were up in the coworking space and the lights were kinda spread apart. So if I wanted to
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:38]
see something clearly, then I had the light there. Just made things a little brighter. Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:43]
Okay.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:45]
So how's that differ from at home?
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:47]
So at home, I don't have the stand. I'm at just some
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:53]
cheap desk that I got on Amazon,
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:56]
when I moved into my apartment.
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:59]
I've got a
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:02]
external monitor that is literally above
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:05]
where I set my laptop,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:07]
but then I just use laptop and trackpad there.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:10]
The Blue Yeti microphone sits on my desk here too.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:13]
So real quick. Do you do wired or Bluetooth or wireless, whatever? Like, I know the Logitech's got the little
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:20]
Bluetooth adapter.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:22]
What do you do for peripherals?
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:25]
Are they are they plugged in or or not, basically?
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:30]
Not plugged in. So at home,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:32]
I don't have any.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:34]
Wait. Wait. Wait. You don't have an external keyboard right now? No. Like, literally my laptop keyboard. I have my laptop sitting under
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:43]
my monitor,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:44]
and I'm making hand gestures here. So you're down here on my laptop. My keyboard's
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:50]
on the laptop. Okay. So when you said your trackpad, you meant literally the trackpad
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:56]
On the on the okay. Alright. Interesting. And then at the office, are those wired peripherals or not? They're not. They're just the Logitech
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:03]
little old USB thing. Okay. How often do have to change your batteries?
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:09]
Like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:10]
four to six months.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:13]
Okay. Interesting. So I got out of the wireless
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:16]
peripheral game a while ago. This is, I think, what annoyed Chris Brown a little bit because everything on my desk
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:22]
is wired.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:24]
Yep. So my mouse, my keyboard,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:26]
clearly, my microphone,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:28]
everything.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:29]
I have a pair of speakers. Those are also wired. So I got wires running everywhere. Forgot about the speakers. Yeah. And I've got an external,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:36]
or an extra camera that is also wired.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:39]
Now I run all the USB stuff into my single monitor.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:43]
I used to have multiple monitors. I don't do that anymore.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:48]
And I've got just a single USB
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:51]
run coming off the monitor. So it's not like I got a lot to plug in, but there are a lot of cables going to that monitor.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:56]
And
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:57]
yeah. You know, I mean, as far as the,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:00]
keyboard situation goes, I like a TKL,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:03]
keyboard,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:04]
ten ten keyless for, those who aren't following at home.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:08]
Currently using a Cooler Master,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:11]
a Cooler Master,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:12]
RGB.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:14]
I don't even know what model, but it's it's one of the RGB ones that lights up. It's right now just set to the purple the color purple.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:21]
And,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:22]
I I believe these switches are browns.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:24]
They do not have additional o rings on them.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:28]
Prior to this, I had the code keyboard,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:31]
which for anybody that
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:32]
follows keyboards will know exactly what that is. I had the white
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:37]
clickies,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:38]
though, and or whatever they're called.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:42]
The the little
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:44]
things that make the keys go in and out. Anyhow,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:50]
so it's really loud, and this keyboard is a little less loud. For a mouse, I use an Evolent, which is a vertical mouse. This usually trips people up. So rather than resting your hand down on top of it,
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:03]
you hold the mouse like you would if you were shaking someone's hand, and it's just a lot more comfortable. I actually have a printer on my desk too.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:12]
It it gets more use than it used to, believe it or not. It's got a flat I got a flatbed scanner to it, so it's sizable.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:18]
And then, I have a pair of Mackie speakers
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:21]
that I love.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:23]
I do not have a subwoofer. That was something I did not want with this desk.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:28]
Obviously, my microphone. Trying to link what else. Are on a standing desk?
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:32]
I am on a standing desk. I'm not standing at the moment.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:35]
I use a a simple human standing desk. It is
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:39]
pretty wide, truth be told,
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:42]
and, I don't know. I like it. But it's it's not a lot of frills. It's mechan or, you know, electric, and it has a,
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:49]
a memory keypad.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:51]
At this moment, I have four
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:54]
Macs
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:55]
on my desk.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:57]
That's probably a little unusual. So I've got a Mac trash can,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:01]
Mac Pro, the the trash can model. I actually have my Mac mini server that I don't use very often anymore out on the desk because of some of my computer bows. And I've got my personal laptop as well as my work laptop. So they're all here.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:15]
In terms of nonpersonal stuff, I've got a little, I don't know, tray that sorts
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:20]
paper. It's pretty small. There's not a lot on it. It's got, like, my jury summons, things of that nature. Right. And then I have a place to store pens.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:29]
It is a little Steelers Crock
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:32]
that, and that's about it.
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:35]
Yeah. So I don't have,
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:36]
like, pen or paper holders at home. I pile more paper like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:41]
hey. Car registration that I can't get electronically and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:45]
So that kinda sits there until I do something with it.
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:49]
At work, I have usually
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:52]
a FieldNotes kinda full size notepad and the FieldNotes pocketbook
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:57]
that would sit out there. The actual, like, Field Notes brand or an oh, look at you. Out of Chicago. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:05]
So you do splurge on some things, John.
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:08]
Sure.
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:12]
I have one coaster here. I think there are four coasters on my desk at work.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:18]
How many do you use at a time, John?
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:21]
Up to two.
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:23]
Okay. Alright. Usually coffee and water.
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:25]
But I have this nice, coaster that I got at word word camp Nashville last year. It's like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:32]
it's like the stone coaster. It's really nice and then just little
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:36]
flimsy ones from different companies that they gave out. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:41]
I feel like I should send you a picture of my desk so you can
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:45]
stick it on the blog post when you're releasing. You should do the same with yours. I should
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:50]
do some dusting of my desk at work and then
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:54]
do that. And then do that. Yeah. So the Don't buy a black desk.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:58]
Pro
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:00]
tip. Hashtag pro tip. Do you you've got I'm assuming you have drawers at home. Do you have drawers at the office? I do not have drawers at the office. This is something I recently added. I've got a little drawer unit I picked up from IKEA. It's been great.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:12]
I I actually keep, like, just a bunch of
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:14]
loose end electronic stuff in one drawer. I've got notebooks in the other. I do use notebooks for some things, believe it or not. And then the top drawer is just like a catch all.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:25]
So I'll put my glasses in there and my wallet when I'm not carrying my wallet, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:29]
And, yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:30]
I should get a drawer like that. So my that kind of stuff sits on top of my dresser at home. Okay. Like, glasses, wallet, stuff like that. I, you know, I I could leave it on the dresser.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:41]
The dresser's upstairs.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:42]
My office is kinda my space, so, you know Got it. Just works out better that way.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:48]
But Nice.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:50]
Did you highlight your non tech things, John? Do you have you're not a knickknack guy, are you?
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:55]
No. I do have
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:57]
my wife's snake plant sitting here on my desk because snake plants do not lead need a lot of sunlight,
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:06]
And
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:08]
I don't remember why it got moved in here.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:12]
Sounds like it's gonna move again.
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:15]
Maybe.
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:16]
So that's sitting on my desk. I have a couple of these higher things higher things.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:24]
Oh, the hat. Because
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:26]
Kristen Sanchez,
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:28]
brought those for me. So I'll sit there until they find a better place.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:33]
Alright. Good deal. Yeah. It always surprises me at the office when I'm in Atlanta, how many people have knickknacks strung out across their desk. That's just Oh. Myself. That's a good at work,
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:43]
I have a framed photo
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:45]
of my wife from our wedding day that always sits on my desk there.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:50]
Aw. That's lovely.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:53]
And there might be a couple life with twisted almond stickers left there too. The handles off. I have a picture of my kids on my background for my desk or for my laptop, my work laptop. That's that's the only picture.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:04]
The only non sports related picture in my office, actually.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:08]
Stanley,
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:08]
where is the picture of me and you on my wedding day? It's up on my, dresser upstairs, John.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:15]
Okay.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:16]
As long as it's in a
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:18]
place of reverence and
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:21]
I I see I see it when I change my underwear every day.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:25]
That's probably fitting. I can't remember which one you have. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:30]
Alright, John.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:31]
On that note, I'll, I'll just say this. I hope, Liz, you've made it this far.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:36]
This has definitely been your episode. We've mentioned you now by name at least 10 times. But I I think we lost her during your,
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:43]
Mac talk, and then probably That was short. That was short. She can handle that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:49]
Liz, she can handle it. Trust me. Trust me. Alright? Hang in there. Now we have to come up with something to talk about next week. I'm
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:56]
sure we'll figure it out, John. Until then,
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:59]
dear listeners, please don't forget to check us out on Facebook,
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:03]
Twisted Lemon pod. On Twitter, same Twisted Lemon pod. Also, you can look us up on iTunes where we would welcome your five, I said five
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:12]
star review, Life With A Twisted Lemon. Oh. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:17]
Later.