SPEAKER_0 [00:00:00]
Dramas, please.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:13]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:20]
This is life
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:22]
with a twist of lemon.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:25]
John.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:26]
John. John. John.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:29]
John.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:32]
You're in a good mood today, Stanley.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:34]
Oh, are we recording? I'm recording.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:39]
Alright.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:40]
Hey. So,
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:43]
I, I got rid of a bunch of stuff today.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:46]
Yeah?
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:47]
Yeah. What kind of stuff?
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:49]
Just stuff that didn't give me joy.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:53]
Okay. Marie Kondo.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:54]
Well, yeah. So have you read that book? No. I did not watch the Netflix series either.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:00]
Okay. I don't have Netflix. I don't know anything about the series. I've just I've heard about it. Like, people reference Marie Kondo
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:07]
all the time in my world. Yeah. So in my little software engineering corner. Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:12]
And
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:12]
I am a little,
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:15]
I think I don't know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:17]
surprised
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:19]
that it's such a trendy thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:21]
I I don't know. Maybe I've been living in a bubble. But but here's the thing. So I think I'm gonna get the book. I think I'm gonna try reading it. Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:28]
There's there's two books as far as I understand it, and I'm gonna start with the the first one. What do you think the likelihood
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:35]
of people listening to this podcast is what do what do think the likelihood of people who listen to this podcast know, one, who Marie Kondo is, and two,
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:44]
what the KonMari method is?
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:47]
So
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:48]
I think that I would probably put it about 60% of people know who Marie Kondo is, 60% of our listeners.
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:55]
Is the method just the whole brings you joy thing?
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:59]
I I think so. I haven't actually found a I haven't actually found a good definition of it. Here's the thing. When when I first heard Con Mario, was like, oh, man. I hate it when they get that stuff as an appetizer.
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:12]
Alright, Stan. Always thinking about food.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:15]
Yeah. You know? I anyhow, so,
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:18]
I guess again,
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:20]
I haven't read the book, so maybe we should do a sequel to this episode after I read the book. Would you read the book with me, John? How long is it?
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:28]
I I have no idea. It's probably more than two pages, less than a thousand. That's just a guess, though.
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:36]
Perhaps. I won't commit yet. Or hey. In Kindle nomenclature,
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:39]
it's less than a thousand swipes.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:42]
What size font are you using? Why does that matter, John? Why why why do you make it difficult?
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:48]
Hey. I actually,
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:49]
on your Kindle, do you use a big font or a little font? I use a bigger font than
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:54]
if I
SPEAKER_1 [00:02:55]
was picking up a standard paperback book.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:59]
Yeah. Me too. I feel like an old man when I'm holding my Kindle because it's like, you know, there are five words on the page,
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:05]
and I don't do it because I can't see. I do it because I really like the swipe. It feels like I'm turning the page, and It feels like progress, so I'm just constantly turning through it. I I like the extra space instead of things being all condensed. So Yeah. I do I do appreciate more spacing. I I I'm with you. I'm with you. I
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:23]
guess you could say that I I am
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:27]
decluttering my page of words. Right.
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:31]
You can never have too much white space.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:36]
I don't know if that's true, but I understand the spirit of what you're trying to say. How's that?
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:43]
Okay.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:44]
Like, a page that is completely blank, that doesn't give me joy.
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:49]
You aren't thinking about it artistically enough, Stan.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:53]
Okay. There's nothing artistic about a blank sheet of paper.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:56]
Okay. That is the absence of artistic ability. That is artistic ability
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:00]
art?
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:02]
Don't get me started on modern art.
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:05]
I wish so we would not be able to keep our clean rating if I told you about the the first time we went to a modern art museum.
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:12]
What's what's that joker's name from Pittsburgh who did the, the Campbell's soup can thing?
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:17]
I have no idea. Oh my gosh. This is why I
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:21]
this is embarrassing.
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:23]
It's not Frank Lloyd Wright.
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:28]
Andy Warhol. Gosh. I can't believe I I Like Pop Art? Yeah. He does like a Mickey Mouse sling. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:34]
I don't know if he does
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:37]
Mickey Mouse, but he was known for his iconic paintings of the Campbell soup cans. I don't know. Anyhow, let's just say Andy that
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:44]
Warhol,
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:47]
Mickey Mouse.
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:50]
Do you realize you can put Mickey Mouse at the end of any Google search? It's a thing. It's like four Mickeys in, like, these nineteen seventies looking colors,
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:59]
and it's weird.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:01]
Alright. Well, that pretty much sums up oh, yeah. That is. Oh, this is like everything that Andy Warhol does. Right. He takes the same image, makes it fourth time. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's I I like, there's some cool stuff there, but there's also a whole section of the museum that is just again,
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:17]
we would not be able to keep our clean rating on iTunes, so I'll just leave it at that. Alright.
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:22]
And this is from Pittsburgh?
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:24]
Yeah, man. That's where the Andy Warhol Museum is. Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:27]
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's something. There's a there's a bridge named after him,
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:33]
which I know that sounds like really awesome, but in Pittsburgh, there's so many bridges that Correct. Be named at or like a bridge be named after you. It's not like it's not like the greatest thing since sliced bread, but But this seems like a good goal for you, Stan. Get a bridge Yeah. Named after
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:46]
I I don't think I'm eligible, but I I would I would love that. That would be that would be, like, an ultimate
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:52]
I would I would totally dig that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:55]
Alright.
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:55]
So Anyways, Marie Kondo, you got rid of stuff. What kind of stuff?
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:00]
So I actually had a I had a video camera
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:03]
from 2006
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:06]
that I bought at Sony. I bought at least two video cameras since then. Yeah. I I like, I haven't I haven't used this thing. And now your phone shoots better video than any of those? Yeah. Well,
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:16]
it's so I I actually have a pretty nice Canon,
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:19]
camera, a video camera that I bought at at some point and
SPEAKER_1 [00:06:24]
Doesn't shoot in four k.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:25]
It doesn't. No. It doesn't. That's its thing. But it does have a bigger zoom. So in that standpoint, it's nice. But I I was actually thinking to myself, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:33]
you know, this this camera, this Canon camera does not give me joy. I should part ways with it. Yeah. And I should get myself either a Gimbal or a tripod or something for my phone Sure. Because that really is probably the sweet spot. Although, will say,
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:46]
having shot
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:47]
footage at a number of baseball games this year, the stabilization
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:51]
on
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:52]
the iPhone is wickedly good. Yeah. But But a gimbal would still be cool. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I got rid of I got rid of that. I got rid of, I saved boxes
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:04]
for old iPhones
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:05]
Yeah. And old Apple Watches, some that you now have the replacements of. The iPhones have been traded in, so I got I got rid of all that. I don't even know why I saved all the ones that I saved.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:15]
Do you have any spare Apple Watch chargers?
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:19]
No. Okay.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:22]
Nice try, John. Nobody ever has spare chargers?
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:25]
Actually, so interestingly, as I was opening up the iPhone boxes, I found a whole bunch of chargers I never took out of them. Nice. So yeah. I don't know. Those things seem to amass a lot. I was actually thinking to myself, like, I have more
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:39]
wall chargers than I have devices to use them at this point, and so I should just inventory them and get rid of some. Because they don't bring you joy. They don't bring you joy. Keep a couple spares for when you lose one on vacation or
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:52]
keep one in your car or something like that. Some some like that. Yeah. Yeah. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:57]
I think so this this has been kinda a friend of mine. I I had to clean out some stuff. I got rid of a couple monitors. I actually donated them to the the high school in town. So you didn't just throw them in the trash? No. No. Like like, stuff that still has
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:10]
has, you know, value and can be used. Like, I I think this is this is kinda my my rubric here. Right? Like, I am not going to use these things. And in the case of at least one of them, I had not used them in several years. Yep. So why am I keeping them? Right? Like like and and I think I I keep making light of it, but this is kinda Marie Kondo's thing. If it doesn't give you joy, you you, you know, part ways with it. You have a you celebrate
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:33]
the end of it. Right? It's somebody else's to use, and that's kind of the the angle that I took.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:39]
But I I was thinking about this the other day. I've been doing this forever, man. Yep. Like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:43]
I I I actually remember when I started, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:47]
minimalizing
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:48]
the the stuff in my life,
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:51]
and it was, it was in fourth grade.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:55]
I don't remember fourth grade, and I'm Oh, I remember this very vividly. I I was with, my mom's first cousin, so they're, like, my second cousin, I guess. I don't know. Whatever.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:04]
And we were on a canoe trip. Yep. And and I was I don't even remember how this came to be, but but they were telling me, like, you know, fourth grade's a big deal. You should, like, go through all your stuff and just purge and clean and get down to just, you know, what you need. And I did that,
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:21]
and then I kept doing that. I almost, like, made it a a ceremonial thing. And by the time I went to college, I was such a minimalist
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:28]
that I I actually I took everything out of my room when I moved in, and I think I had, like, two, three bags that was it, and boom, done. Yeah. And I never moved back to the house, like, was able to just take all my stuff with me. Now, I did, as a theology student, collect far more theology books than a normal person should collect, but I have I have sold a bunch of those since. So Yeah. Your book collection isn't huge anymore, unless you're hiding them in boxes somewhere.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:52]
No. No. I've I've,
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:55]
know, that's that's one of those things I went through. Was like, am I gonna read this book again? No.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:59]
Was this book good the first time? Definitely not. Right? And so you put them on Amazon. You try and sell them. I've donated some to the library. Yeah. And then
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:08]
I finally I bought two
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:10]
really nice bookshelves. I had them had them custom made,
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:13]
and I decided that if I couldn't fit all of my books on that bookshelf,
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:18]
I need to get rid of some. Yep. And so periodically, you know, kinda weed them out, but
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:24]
yeah. I don't know. So this this Marie Kondo thing, just come full circle here. My understanding I found a summary online. There are five
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:32]
decluttering
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:33]
principles.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:34]
Oh, so more than just one.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:36]
Yeah. Well, I mean, you can't you can't write a book or make a Netflix show on just one.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:41]
Right? Sounds like a challenge.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:43]
Okay.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:44]
We'll work on it. But but so here's here's the skinny. Right? Discarding by category comes first. So, basically, she says, like, go through your clothes, your books, papers, and then miscellaneous.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:54]
Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:56]
Then she says break a category into subcategories as necessary, so like with clothes Shirts. Tops, shirts, sweaters. Shoes. Whatever.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:04]
Exactly. Right? And then
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:06]
keep only those things that spark joy.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:09]
You're supposed to pick them up one by one and decide, does it stay?
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:13]
And then, after you finish discarding, organize your space through and completely,
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:17]
and then, you know, store things of the same type together.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:20]
And, then the the fifth one is do it all in one go
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:25]
rather than little by little. So basically Interesting. So that's that's opposite of what most people would tell you.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:31]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's something to this. I was actually I was dwelling on this before
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:36]
we we started recording because
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:38]
my children have
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:40]
horrifically messy rooms,
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:43]
and Henry used to be the worst. Yeah. He is he's actually pretty clean, and we actually we it was like we blew up a bomb
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:51]
in his room, and we got rid of just all kinds of stuff. Now, you know, he's little, so we had to kinda give the does this spark Henry joy thing ourselves.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:01]
He's a pack rat. But once we got all of the chaos out of the way, he actually became really good at keeping his room clean because he realized, like, I kinda like this. I know where things are.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:11]
We did that also with Evelyn, and now Lucy
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:15]
Lucy's coming up, and Lucy is a pack rat to the nth degree.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:19]
But, I've never I don't know. As far as I can recall, I've never been a crazy pack rat.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:25]
No.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:27]
How about you, John?
SPEAKER_1 [00:12:28]
I have definitely accumulated
SPEAKER_1 [00:12:31]
a bunch of junk.
SPEAKER_1 [00:12:32]
I don't think that it's that I want the junk. I think it's that I'm lazy at clearing out the junk.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:40]
So it sounds like you need to do it all in one go. Probably.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:44]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:45]
So I find moving to be incentive
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:49]
to liquidate. Yeah. Right? When we moved this last time first of we didn't have a basement at the last house, and so that was a really great curb to keeping things minimal. Yep. And I I I should be clear, like, I have a lot of things
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:03]
in general.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:05]
Yes. But I I feel like we've been pretty utilitarian
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:09]
in general, right, about what we have, and so
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:12]
it it makes it a little easier to to weed things out. Yep. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:17]
I don't know. I think the number this is one thing I haven't heard, and maybe Marie Kondo says this, I just I gotta read the book, but,
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:24]
buy less. Right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:27]
You know this because you're you're my Yes. Cheapest
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:29]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:31]
But I do think, like, I I watch people, they buy every little thing. Right? And then you figure they're tossing in some drawer and forgetting that it's there. And and I think maybe this is the key. Right? Do you know of all the things that you have? Right. Like, can you catalog them in your head?
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:49]
Is that even well, mean Right. Is that possible if you got a ton of stuff? But I feel like Why not?
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:53]
In my office, I could tell you everything I have.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:56]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:57]
And in my office, that's my that's my guardrail. So if I can't keep it organized
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:04]
in my office in a nice fashion,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:07]
then I got too much stuff. I gotta I gotta trim the fat. Alright.
SPEAKER_1 [00:14:10]
And you can trim a lot in your office because you could go down to a laptop and a microphone.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:17]
I I think I'd still keep my monitor. But yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:20]
No. I mean, you've got I think you're you're onto something. Right? So I don't
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:27]
my
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:27]
laptop, my phone
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:30]
is all I need. My iPad is kinda superfluous.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:32]
Yeah. I do have a separate, you know, work computer and personal computer, but
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:37]
the fact that I have speakers on the desk,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:40]
like, that's so nice to have Yep. In my book, you know, same with the printer. The monitor,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:45]
I don't really need it to work, but I I do like it. It definitely
SPEAKER_1 [00:14:48]
makes work more enjoyable and sparks joy. It definitely sparks joy. When you're trying
SPEAKER_1 [00:14:54]
debugs the code too.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:55]
Like Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:57]
What do you what do you make of this all all this Marie Kondo stuff?
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:03]
I don't know, man. It was we're kinda past when it was super popular when the Netflix show hit, but
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:10]
I'm I'm with you. I think that something I'm really bad at is going through old clothes that I don't wear or doesn't fit anymore. And, like, it's just taking up space and cluttering stuff up, so
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:22]
I should just go throw it away.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:25]
Well, don't don't throw it away. Take it to the Salvation Army.
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:28]
That would be my recommendation, but k. Some of the stuff I've had since I was a freshman in high school probably, so it's probably holy and
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:36]
Well, I mean, if it's not so I think there's
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:39]
I with clothes are interesting to me, first of all, because I
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:43]
I don't have a lot of choice in my wardrobe. Like, I'm pretty minimalistic. Right? Like, I have the exact same pair of socks, the exact same pair of underwear, the exact same shirt, pretty much the exact same set of pants.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:55]
Yep. My variables are pretty limited,
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:58]
And and so I tend to do things in phases.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:00]
Right? Like, I retire I just retired a whole set of undershirts in bulk because they were all just kinda like I mean, you know how undershirts get kinda funky. Yeah. Right? So I I retired them, and I bought 10 new ones. Right? Nice. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:15]
I like, that's that's what I've got. And I I think I don't find myself amassing clothes because I tend to I wear them
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:23]
with such a regular frequency that I I wear them out. I'm like, okay. I no longer want to be seen in public with this. Right. So,
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:30]
that doesn't mean it's not bad or not good. Right? Like like, somebody might
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:34]
actually want it, and if it can help out Salvation Army, fine. Otherwise, you know, they do whatever they do with it. But,
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:40]
that's kinda the the the way that I tackle that. And then, you know, same goes for, like, dress clothes. Right? I I don't have a thousand dress shirts because I mean, only wear I only wear those at church. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:52]
You know? So
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:53]
for the most part, I've got five
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:56]
and I I, you know, I wear the same one on the first Sunday of the month, the same one on the second Sunday of the month, the same one on the third Sunday, etcetera, you know? So what's keeping you from just going all Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg?
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:08]
Oh, have the same outfit every day? Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:11]
It's funny you asked this. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:15]
I like, when I first entered into the gray American Apparel shirt that I'm wearing right now,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:22]
I I had this and Dickies jeans. Right? And I Yeah. That was I wear the same thing every single day. I I actually it what bothered me, and I think there's something to this, is I was in San Francisco at the office, and somebody
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:37]
made a joke in a, like, not so friendly way,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:41]
hinting that I never changed my clothes. So didn't you wear that yesterday? I was like, you know what? First of all, you're a jerk. Second of all, do I smell like I wore this yesterday?
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:53]
That that made me think that, you know, I need enough variation
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:57]
to allow me to be comfortable around
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:00]
judgmental people.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:03]
Got it. So you just care what people think too much is what I'm here and there. I wouldn't say that
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:09]
because, you know, I've like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:12]
whatever. I I saw them for a week, and that was it. Moved on. But I I do think there is something to, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:19]
making people around you comfortable by having enough variance.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:23]
Got it. And you haven't graduated to the Steve Jobs level yet.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:27]
So No. No. Listen. You're getting close.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:31]
If I'm if I'm that kind of guy someday, I will wear the exact same turtleneck
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:36]
and love it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:38]
Nice. But No. I mean, I do so, like, I've got a set of button up shirts that I wear
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:44]
pretty regularly, and
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:46]
they're they're all the same kind. They're just different colors. They're same pattern, but I just alternate the colors. So again, like, just enough variance to keep me level set in the world, but I don't I don't really worry about it beyond that.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:58]
Is it clean? Exactly.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:00]
Right?
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:01]
That's that's how I choose my clothes, but I haven't gone to buying multiples of the same thing, except for socks.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:09]
I have black socks, and I have white socks.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:12]
So I've been moving towards all black socks. I've actually been phasing out my white socks. Yeah. So I buy them, you know, packs of five. Right? And I got five in, five out. When I do that, I try to keep 10 in circulation. So you know why I went that way?
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:25]
Because I hated
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:26]
matching socks
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:28]
when I first moved to Iowa on my own. So
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:31]
I absolutely hated matching socks when they weren't all the same. So now it's, hey, two socks. These go together.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:38]
I mean, I I'm with you. I it always amazes me the folks that have cool socks, like colorful socks. Yep. You know, that just seems like a lot of work. But I I I admire it. Like, if that gives you joy, that sparks joy.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:51]
So missus Kolmeyer is known for her colorful socks and wearing mismatched ones because she didn't like matching socks either.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:57]
So.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:58]
I was gonna say, I've I've never actually seen her wear
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:01]
matching socks, at least not that I know of. She does,
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:05]
especially in professional settings. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:07]
See,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:08]
I figured that's where you gotta go wild and crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:11]
Missus Lemon has a pair of
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:14]
Spock socks.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:15]
Nice. They they actually have Spock on them and they got little ears, pointy ears her
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:20]
joy or does it bring you joy?
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:23]
It it definitely brings her joy. I find it a little more defined, but
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:29]
I think I don't know, man. Like, I find so the reason that I am so minimalistic with the clothing
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:34]
is is just because it's not a it's not a problem space that I wanna commit
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:38]
brain cycles to. Yep. You know? Like, I don't I just I don't care enough to worry about this. And so
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:44]
I, I've standardized. Right? I've eliminated my decision making. That's actually why I shaved my head a couple years ago and got into a buzz cut. It's like, I I don't wanna worry about my hair in the morning. I just wanna get up and get going and and focus on other things. Now that's hilarious because when I met you, you would spend, like, fifteen minutes on each little spike of hair. Well,
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:05]
I definitely I mean, I yeah. When I had the spiky hair, I I spent a lot of time. I I spent even more time on my hair when it was long and parted.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:14]
Both very nineties looks for you, Stan. Yes. They were.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:18]
But,
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:19]
no. You know, I I think this is all that minimalism flavor. Right? And I there
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:25]
I'm not trying to knock anybody. That's a pack rat. You know? If you wanna do a season of the Hoarders show, like, go for it. More power to you.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:33]
How many pairs of shoes do you own? Because I've seen my number of shoe pairs creeping up recently, and it kinda bugs me.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:41]
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:43]
Okay. Let me think about this. So I have a summer pair of Merrells and a winter pair of Merrells. K. K? And I I literally
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:50]
I I like the summer ones I'm wearing right now. Yeah. And I will wear them probably until November.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:57]
Basically, there's a point at which I start to feel my toes get cold, and then I'll switch to the winter ones. I've had this for a number of years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:04]
They're they're basically the same shoe, but one is breathable, the other is not. So these are like hiking shoes essentially. Right? Yeah. They're they're multipurpose hiking shoes. I I don't know. They're not they're not super sturdy hiking shoes. Like, they've got some flexibility to the soles and whatnot, but,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:22]
that's the shoe I wear every day. K?
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:24]
I have one pair of black dress shoes k. That I wear to church on Sunday.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:29]
I have a pair of Dockers that I wore,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:33]
like brown leather Dockers that I wore when I worked at giftcards.com
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:38]
because I had a dress code, and I had to wear those every day. Got it. I don't know that I've worn those since I left gift cards, and we're talking about That was or eight years. Was many jobs ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:51]
I have those because they're still good. I guess I could give
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:55]
them away,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:56]
but, like, I keep thinking to myself, I might actually wear these. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:01]
I have so last year, this was a splurge buy. This is an unnatural for me. I bought a pair of Nike tennis shoes Yep. That were Steelers themed.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:12]
Okay? Right. Because you wanted to wear them on the football field in Indianapolis.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:17]
Yep. Yep. And they're they're comfortable, and I do I do wear them Yeah. Not every day. Every Sunday?
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:23]
In the afternoon, yes.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:25]
So
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:26]
let's see. We're I'm I'm up to, what, four, five pairs of shoes? Five. Yeah. Yep. And then I I do have a six pair. I have a pair of brown Echos that I wear with khakis
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:35]
sometime.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:36]
I bought them because they were stupid cheap, and Echos are really comfortable, and they're like a casual dress kind of thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:44]
So that's it. No. That's all I got. That's not it.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:47]
You have at least one more that's very specialized in purpose.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:52]
Are you talking about my tevis? I'm talking about your cycling cleats.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:56]
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I that's in that's in a separate category. Alright. I'll say
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:00]
I do have I do have a pair of sandals. I got a pair a single pair of sandals. I do have a pair of boots.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:05]
Like snow boots?
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:07]
I wear them in the snow. They're they're leather, so so people wouldn't So like boots.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:11]
Yeah. They're they're they're waterproof,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:13]
and they're steel toe. They're work boots, but I I really just use them in the winter. Got it. Interesting. That's it, John. That's all I I live in Iowa, and I do not have a pair of boots.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:23]
But Do your feet get soaking wet in the snow? Occasionally, yes. Yeah. See, that's that's a nonstarter.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:30]
Dry dry feet are exceptionally important.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:34]
So Alright. I don't I don't feel as bad anymore.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:37]
So Oh, about the number of shoes?
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:39]
Alright, John. Lay it out for me.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:42]
Alright. So I have
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:46]
these canvas based shoes that I wear every day to work.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:50]
I have black dress shoes that I wear on Sundays. I have brown dress shoes that I don't really wear anymore,
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:57]
so I could probably get rid of those.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:59]
I have a pair of,
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:02]
I think they're New Balance, like
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:05]
athletic shoes,
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:07]
like cross training shoes,
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:09]
that I'll wear if I'm playing tennis or stuff like that.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:14]
I have an old pair of tennis shoes that I use to mow lawn and do yard work and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:20]
And cycling cleats.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:24]
Is that it?
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:28]
You should get yourself a pair of boots, John. I should. Serve it. I have a pair of flip flip flops that come in very handy if I'm grilling or something like that. Didn't I give you a pair of Tivas? You did at one point, but that was, like, ten years ago, Stan.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:43]
I think I lived in Saxonburg. It wasn't ten years ago. Are you telling me you got rid of the Tivas?
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:47]
If I didn't get rid of them, I don't know where they are. They
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:50]
didn't give you joy. They didn't spark joy. So I I you call that something,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:55]
I the the lawn care stuff. Right? So I use the Merrells that I have on right now for mowing the lawn. Yep. I don't use the tennis shoes, the Nikes that I've got, and so that's kind of, like, my distinction there. But Right. I I admit I've I'm like, as far as I'm concerned, I've got more shoes than I need. Yep. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:15]
I
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:16]
I will the the amount will probably shrink with time.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:21]
So the the thing is, as I've gotten older, I've bought more expensive shoes and they've lasted longer. Right. But I'm not really going for variety,
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:30]
like my marbles. They're about as utilitarian as you can get.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:34]
Yeah. I need to find something like that that I could wear
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:37]
both
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:39]
in all sorts of situations rather than just like work shoes.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:43]
But
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:44]
You dress a little nicer for work than I do.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:48]
I guess I am wearing a shirt that is a button up and collar. I don't know if that's always true though. Do you ever wear shorts to work? I do not wear shorts to work though. I wear jeans just about every day. I I wear shorts and a t shirt most days, John. I don't know. I feel
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:03]
I I just don't think I would feel comfortable wearing shorts at work.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:06]
Oh, I see. This is about as comfortable as I get. In fact, I next time I go to Atlanta, I may wear shorts just for the fun of it. Yeah. I mean, I could wear shorts if I wanted to, but I don't.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:18]
So as far as, like, I've got jeans, got khakis, I've got shorts, and I have the exact same pair for each of them. On the khakis, I did mix it up. I've got, a steel colored and a khaki colored,
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:28]
but but that's it. See, I do not have any khakis.
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:33]
That surprises me, John. Nope. I wore khakis a lot in high school, but I do not currently own any.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:40]
Well, I still have shorts.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:43]
Yeah. That's that's all I have. I don't jean shorts are no. No. No. That's a no go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:49]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:50]
Anyways So in this is interestingly
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:52]
Turned very weird talking about clothes. Yeah. Here we go. Let's move on. Wardrobe.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:58]
How many baseball caps do you have, John?
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:02]
I have two that I wear.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:05]
I also have a
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:06]
Chicago Cubs championship,
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:09]
World Series championship cap that they wore on the field after they won. I mean, not the one that I have, but same style.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:19]
And then I also have an older,
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:21]
Cubs hat that's all stretched out now.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:24]
Okay. I have I have two. I have a Pirates hat, I got a Steelers hat. Yeah. And I basically wear them with the seasons. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:32]
And then I got a I've got a single, kangal that I work some wear sometimes as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:37]
Yeah. That's it.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:40]
So
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:41]
the ball caps that I wear currently are a Callaway
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:45]
golf cap
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:46]
that I wear golfing, and I have a WordPress
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:49]
ball cap that I got at WordCamp. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:53]
So what what would cause you to retire one of your hats? I think this is this is what I wanna get to the bottom of. Right? Because for me, I'm all about minimizing decision making. Right? And and taking the extraneous decision making out of the picture. What what, like, what causes you to pare things down?
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:14]
Usually, if they're
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:15]
broken or wearing out.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:18]
Okay. So you hold on to it even when it doesn't spark joy? Probably.
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:22]
I'm also I don't know that I many things spark joy for me though, Stan. So like clothes,
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:28]
like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:30]
I don't know that it sparks joy other than, hey,
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:33]
I'm clothed and can go out in public.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:37]
Let let me, let me turn this around a little bit. What if what if you have an article of clothing that you just don't like wearing?
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:45]
Then it probably hangs around for far too long until I decide to get rid of it. And I probably do that about once a year when I'm changing summer clothes to winter clothes or something like that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:56]
So that's the kind of thing I think Marie Kondo is encouraging. I definitely encourage it for, like, everybody. I think Right. I think this this holds true. Some of this might play into my role as a software engineer too Yeah. Because, like, we celebrate the leading lines of code. Yep. Probably sounds weird,
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:13]
but, you know, anytime you can cut down cognitive overhead, it's a huge win. And so we celebrate that, and I think that plays into
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:21]
other parts of my life. Right? Because I can't I can't shed the fact that I'm an engineer when I walk into my clothes closet. Like, I don't need all this Let's let's reduce the decision making.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:31]
It produces minor efficiencies, but I think those are important efficiencies.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:34]
I think they they add up over time. Sure. Do you eat the same thing for breakfast every day?
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:41]
Pretty much. So here's it's funny funny you asked this. So,
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:46]
we have Ziggy's sometimes, the yogurt. K. Icelandic yogurt skier.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:52]
And when that's in the fridge, I eat that. As soon as that's done, I've got a singular cereal that I pour a bowl of.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:59]
Is it Raisin Bran?
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:01]
No. It's it's like almond brands. All these almond brand or whatever. Got it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:06]
But
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:07]
yeah. You know, I like again, I breakfast is not
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:12]
something I'm going to
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:14]
worry about Right. Making a decision around. Right? Like, I have a I have a binary decision in the morning. Is there actually, it's yeah. It was a singular decision with a with a binary result. Right? Like, yes or no. Is there Ziggies available? And then I I go to the other. If in the event that neither is available, I probably just wouldn't have breakfast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:32]
Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:34]
But, the the irony is with dinner, it's a totally different story. Like, there's that's the most complex
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:41]
aspect of my day. But I will say and and you've seen me do this. Right? Like, I get I get really
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:47]
jumpy
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:48]
about leftovers and about people not cleaning their plate. So if you scoop it out, you gotta use it all. Right? Great. And if we've got leftovers, like, we gotta we gotta work through that. So I don't like to throw out food. I'm not entirely sure where I picked that up in my life, but,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:02]
I like, things have purposes. They should be used for their purpose, and waste is just bad. Right? Which is one of the reasons why if I'm not using those monitors, I take them to the high school Right. And I, you know, I part ways with them.
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:16]
Makes sense.
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:18]
Yeah. So on the whole clearing your plate thing, I'm the same way,
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:23]
which
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:24]
leads to uncomfortable situations sometimes, especially if you go to eat out and you have these giant portions. So then I just eat the whole thing.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:32]
Yep. And then you can't move afterwards.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:35]
I that's actually one of the reasons I don't like eating out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:41]
Like, I I I'm liking it less and less as I get older and older because
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:45]
the yeah. Portions are just unreasonable. I think you have to be bold enough to order something you're willing to take the leftovers home and eat it tomorrow. Yeah. And you have to look at a meal and say, like, okay. This is too big. I will only eat half of it because the rest of it will make it great lunch, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:01]
So there's another reason why you like eating out less and less, and that's because both you and your wife make exceptional food,
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:08]
which is better than you can find in many restaurants.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:11]
So
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:12]
I yeah. I think that's this part of it. I do like, I don't know, man. I do enjoy eating out. Yep. What I what I don't enjoy is
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:21]
the so there's a there's a waiting
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:24]
with nothing productive to to do that usually bothers me. Yeah. Right? If I'm gonna have, like, what I would call mindless
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:31]
inactive time, I want it to be on my terms Right. Not on a restaurant's.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:37]
It used to be that I found eating out to be frustrating with kids. That's not really true anymore, but
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:44]
I and I also think and maybe this is kinda to your point. It's like, I I pay for something, and I'm like, was that really worth it? Right. You know?
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:51]
And more often than not, I'm like, not really. You know? Hard So to
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:58]
but I think, you know, that that mentality
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:00]
should play into other things.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:02]
Right? So Sure.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:05]
I'm trying to think of, something superfluous I ordered on Amazon recently.
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:11]
I I So I asked you about this the other day. I asked you if you decorated
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:15]
for any holidays. So I, like, I was in Lowe's today picking up a paint sample from my office,
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:22]
and they've got all this, like, Halloween and Jack o'-lantern stuff out.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:28]
Yeah. None of that interests me. Yeah. I I mean,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:32]
I I don't I don't care enough to decorate with it, and so
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:38]
I just kinda
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:40]
If you went all in, you could have the scariest trick or treat stop,
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:45]
on the block.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:46]
Yeah. But that's to me, that does that's like that's that's just not interesting. Right? So
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:51]
well, I
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:53]
do have a mild interest someday in life, like, Chevy chasing it up at Christmas time. Yeah. You know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:59]
National Lampoon style. But I I don't not enough to do it. Right? Right. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:05]
I I think I think some of this comes down to
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:08]
what are your priorities? Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:11]
And those don't align with my priorities. And and maybe maybe this is another episode that we're just Jones is gonna record someday, but, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:18]
do people know what their priorities are? Like, if I asked you to list the top five most important things in your world right now, could you do it? I'm not asking you to do it, but just could you do it? I believe so, but mostly because I went through, like, a defining of core values a couple years ago. Okay. So So I think I think most people can't do that, and,
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:38]
it's a challenge. Like, they gotta slow down and think about it. Yep. And so I think that causes like, when you don't know your priorities, your decision making becomes
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:47]
overloaded. It becomes complicated. Right? Right. Because you don't know how to sort through, like, is this essential
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:52]
right now?
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:53]
And I'll I'll give you an example,
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:56]
that I do very frequently.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:58]
I try when there's something I want on Amazon,
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:02]
I try not to buy it right away. You know, I have Amazon Prime and I could have it in two days and it'd be fantastic.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:08]
I add it to a wish list, and then I give myself a waiting period. And I ask myself a week later, first of all, like, do I still want this?
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:15]
Yep. And then I wait another week. Do I still want this? And
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:19]
basically, what I what I do is I wait for the boundary of the budget.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:23]
Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:24]
And so next month, is this of interest enough that I'm willing to budget for it this month? Right. Right? And I may allow myself to kick it down two months
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:34]
at most, and I'm like, you know what? I've put it off this long now. I don't need it. And I need to delete it from the wish list. Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:41]
Now that that sometimes bites me in the butt. Right? Like, I
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:44]
had router problems far longer
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:47]
than
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:47]
anyone should. Are you listening to that, John? Are you listening? I hear you. Replace replace your router, John. You should have sent me your old router.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:55]
No. I think I think that was
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:58]
legitimately worn out. Yeah. But, you
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:02]
know, I I just think giving yourself pause
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:05]
to process and evaluate,
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:07]
like, it's just even waiting twenty four hours, you know. Twenty four hours later, am I still as excited to get this
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:13]
as I was yesterday? I'll give you I'll give you an example of something that I'm I'm debating right now on whether or not I'm gonna buy. Nintendo Switch.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:21]
No. Man. No. I've I've managed
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:24]
To avoid that so far. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Now when when they when they overhaul it, who knows? So have I shown you the Uni Kota outdoor pizza oven? Yes.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:33]
Okay. This thing is amazing. Right? And I love making pizza. Yes. So this is this is kind of up my alley,
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:40]
and I put it on my wish list on September 4. K? K. So I've not like, there's room in this budget. I haven't decided if I'm gonna make it this month or not. But if I get to next month's budget and I don't budget for the Unicode outdoor pizza oven,
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:55]
then I'm just gonna move on. I'm gonna delete it, and it'll be that. I think you should build your own pizza oven.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:01]
You know, that doesn't this doesn't spark joy in me, John.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:05]
Alright, Stan. Why do we spend an hour or up to an hour every week recording Life with Twist a Lemon?
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:13]
Well, I tried getting out of it once, and and you threatened to record the entire episode on the the philosophy of why did we do this. So that's why we're still here.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:24]
Fair enough. Well, one of my core values is friendship, Stan, and this forces the issue that we talk, and then there's all our friends who contact me after the episode.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:33]
Alright.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:34]
Listen. If you're out there and you're listening right now, please reach out to John Kollmeyer. Tell him how much you love him. He needs that. That's why he has a podcast. That's why I have a podcast too, apparently.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:44]
But we
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:45]
did put your name on the podcast and not mine.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:48]
Well yeah. And and you did that in order to appeal to my ego. So Yes. And it worked. And I I will say,
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:55]
every
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:56]
single week when life with a twist of lemon
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:59]
is released, it sparks joy.
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:02]
Very good.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:04]
John, until next time when we spark something else.
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:07]
Fire?
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:09]
Oh. Oh.
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:11]
Alright. We'll see you.